The BASICS



What makes the CHristian's position more logically plausible?


Here is a typical response to someone claiming that the Atheist and Theist position are both 'irresponsible'.

-----------From Myspace 10/08/2008 by Robert Weigel [QUOTE]Greg wrote:

I wonít respond to the major concern of your post. I wanted to point out though that there seemed to be a recognition of fideism on both sides: the atheists canít prove that God does not exist, and the theists canít prove Godís existence. This is rational irresponsiblity on both sides. A claim to belief is a claim to clarity. If it is clear, it can be shown. It is not to be shown by some pseudo argument, but according to the laws of thought. Atheism typically claims that all is matter. Theists typically claim that matter is created. There are underlying claims here about matter: one side holding that it is in itself self-existent, and self-maintaining, while the other denies both of these and thereby claims a logical gap that can in no way be explained through naturalistic terms.

Claims to either are claims to clarity. If it is clear, then it can be shown according to a common standard held to by all thinkers. The common standard among all thinkers, allowing for thought and language, are the laws of thought. Thus, in integrity each side must forego any authority in speaking toward this matter until they can show how it is clear.[/QUOTE]

Is there some automatic BOT on myspace that always posts this junk? It's MOOT! Because there is no hypothetical WAY that an atheist can KNOW that there is no God. On the other hand there IS a hypothetical way people CAN KNOW that there IS a God (By experiencing a spiritual relationship).

TO deny that the possibility of such doesn't exist is a pure argument from ignorance. WHy is there no shortage of stupid people to ALWAYS post this? I mean..it NEVER fails!!

So there is hypothetically one possibility for those who claim there is no God.

Answer) they are lying!

However TWO hypothetical possibilities exist in the truth table for those claiming there IS a God:

Answer1) They are lying also!

Answer2) THey've had an actual spiritual experience verifying as sure as they know there is gravity that there is a God!

NOW...you claim it's 'irresponsibility' on both sides? WRong. THe Atheist who claims this is a documented liar. That is a logical proof. However the theist bears the possibility that this God is LIKE the God of the bible. He resists the proud, hides himself from the wicked etc.

So in such a scenario there would be no way to SHARE this proof. Why they do you claim that it's irresponsible of the theist? When in fact it's simply a reality of the SCENARIO in which a loving God seeks to establish relationship with his creation? AND KNOWING that if he just manifests before them all, they'll respond out of FEAR and no love relationship will be possible. But if he gradually reveals himself to those who open their hearts up to him..then he can establish this kind of building trust relationship..... Does that NOT make sense to you sir? I hope so. I really do. Now I only have what 400,000 more myspace lunkheads to inform :-). Tell your buddies. Thanks. - -Bob

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HOpefully that message is clear. I often hear people say 'supernatural explanations won't cut it with science'. Actually science has nothing to say about it. It would be an 'argument from ignorance' to say that such things are not possible. However it would be absurd to say that they can be proven by physical means since they are BY CLAIM SUPERnatural things! So by definition that would not be possible. Spiritual things must be experienced by a spiritual nature of a person. If people don't believe they HAVE such a thing, then logic says that they also don't believe they have a CHOICE!

Let's examine the first choice a child makes. Picture it hypothetically. What factors determined this choice? The person who refuses to believe that there is a God who created us with sovereign free will, would claim that the only possible sources of this 'choice' were 1) The prior state of all matter in the universe 2) the interaction of that matter via physical laws to produce the response that we term a choice and 3) maybe randomness some would say. However scientists know that nothing is 'non-causal' in the physical universe. Randomness is simply a term we attribute to things we do not have the root level understanding to predict with certainty. For example we *model* sub atomic particles as these little bb's..however in reality they have wave like character and as a result their positions are observed to be UNCERTAIN! And we don't understand what the medium of space is that allows EM to propogate and matter to remain in these states of harmonically bound EM. (EM is electromagnetic energy).

Ok so anyway the physical universe only model doesn't provide for actual choice. Everything is determined by things outside the ultimate control of a person. The person didn't have control over the prior state of matter in the universe (particularly in their brain) before the first 'choice'. THey didn't control the laws of the universe either most certainly...and they can't control randomness. So this is absolute proof that no choice really exists in this scenario. Only when a God creates spiritual beings with this spiritual nature is there a proposed scenario where choice could exist. And I believe *most* people realize they have real choice. If they are honest with themselves.

So this alone should start most people on a spiritual quest. Who is this creator who made you with this marvelous nature? Why? I pray that you will find those answers, and I know as you seek him you will if you do it in humbleness.